In high-asset divorce cases, the financial issues are often complex, requiring the proper valuation of businesses or other assets, consideration of prenuptial agreements or estate plans, asset and income tracing, and alleged hidden assets or fraud.
When you are the world’s biggest power couple, even more is at stake. On this episode, Mark Briol and Scott Benson break down how they’d protect the rights and property of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce.
On Divided Dynasties, attorneys Mark Briol and Scott Benson guide you through the ins and outs of family business and other complex commercial cases, and how they cut through the madness to deliver positive results.
Podcast Transcript: Divided Dynasties – A Family Business Podcast Episode 4
Introduction: Setting the Stage for a Super Bowl of Prenups
Scott Benson
He needs to live at the same level that he’s gotten used to, during the marriage that he’s having with Miss Swift.
Pat Milan
The level of means that he is about to become accustomed to, right.
Mark Briol
Exactly! We were talking about that before we got on, about his his lifestyle is going to become different than it was before. And at some point in time, he may claim that he’s entitled to that lifestyle.
Pat Milan
Yeah, I mean, think about it right now when he travels on an airplane he has to travel with like 35 to 50 more people.
Mark Briol
All guys, by the way.
Pat Milan
Hi, guys. Hey, it’s Super Bowl week, and I thought we should spend some time setting the rules for the world’s biggest matchup. And I’m not actually talking about the Kansas City Chiefs versus the San Francisco 49ers. I’m talking about pop singer-songwriter, Taylor Swift, and Kansas City Chiefs tight end, Travis Kelce. You up for this? Okay. Well, I have to say first, my faith in humanity forbids me from discussing the divorce of a couple before they’ve even gotten engaged. So, let’s stick to the positive side of the discussion, if there is such a thing, prenuptial agreements. And so as football tradition, we’re in Super Bowl week. I did flip a coin before we started here to determine the sides of the field. Scott, you’re gonna represent Travis Kelce. Mark, you represent Taylor Swift for the purposes of this prenup discussion. Okay, and let’s consider this a public service. You two are among the nation’s leading attorneys in the area of high net worth divorces, you know how to help people ensure their rights and their property are protected when they’re facing marital dissolution. So, if Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce signed prenups, which they obviously are going to do, my first question is, do these things even really work?
Understanding the Legal Landscape of Prenups
Scott Benson
So, I would say it varies by state most likely and every state is different. But by and large in Minnesota prenups are enforced. And there’s some things that you want to look at to make sure that your prenup is going to be enforced. And those of course, are the things we look at, if we’re either representing somebody who wants to enforce their prenup, or somebody who wants to break the prenup. And I should add, we don’t draft prenups. That’s not what we do. We are at the divorce stage. But, regardless of whether we’re in Minnesota or Wisconsin, there are certain issues that we’re going to look at as to whether or not we think that prenup is going to be enforced or might have some difficulty being enforced.
Pat Milan
Mark, what’s the first thing you go looking for when you know there’s a prenup out there?
Mark Briol
Well, one of the first things you look for is you have to understand that a prenup, at least in Minnesota and probably in most states has a fairness element to it. So you look at the fairness of it. And the first thing you look at when you look at fairness is, how long have they been married? I mean, if it’s a prenup they signed 20 years ago, and they’re still married and now we’re getting divorced, you’re gonna look more askance at the prenup. And you know, in the current case of Miss Swift and Mr. Kelce potentially getting married, they are our newest iteration of royalty in the United States. And it’s very fun to watch. And it almost seems like it was planned that they would stay together through the Super Bowl. But in any event, if I was Kelce, and Miss Taylor, I would first of all get the best lawyers. I mean, absolutely the best lawyers who do prenups and you know then you’re going to start off by making a determination about what state you’re going to be in. I mean, what state are you going to use laws as Scott pointed out.
Pat Milan
Well, Mark, Mark, they’re in the state of “euphoria”.
Mark Briol
Yeah, seen a lot of those. But I think Mr. Kelce may be in that state more than Miss Swift.
Pat Milan
I think we’re detecting here that Mark is a Taylor Swiftfan.
Mark Briol
I am, I am.
Pat Milan
Okay, well, let me just set something up here. So Taylor Swift’s net worth. This is according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. Who knew there was such a thing. Maybe you guys did. They say the combination of the Eras tour, which by the way, is back underway. I think she is in Tokyo even as we are speaking, that has elevated her net worth to 1.1 billion. And I actually think that’s low because her song catalogue, as of November 2023, was 119 songs that she had written solo. But her catalogue gets added on top of that, too. That’s 243 songs total. That includes everything: the hits, the flops, the deep cuts, the covers, yeah, she had some flops. Now, Travis Kelce, he’s a scrub compared to Taylor. Well, everyone’s a scrub compared to Taylor. But Travis’s net worth is $30 million. But after the past year, it is quickly increasing. So here’s the question. Remember, you guys are representing different sides. Mark, you’ve got Taylor, Scott, you’ve got Travis, whose side of the prenup is more important?
Mark Briol
Well, in representing Miss Swift as a hypothetical, her side would appear to me to be more important from an economical standpoint. Meaning she has substantially more assets, at least according to public press, then Mr. Kelce does, and you would have to figure out, you know, if you say that she’s worth 1.1 billion now and understand that she’s continuing to get royalties, and oftentimes divorces are set up in terms of how much money is made during the marriage, she could be making 100 million plus a year during the marriage. And the question would be, is Mr. Kelce entitled to that? I would say he’s not. I would negotiate with his lawyer to say you know, you’re getting to the end of your career, she’s just hitting stardom in her career, and you’re gonna be kind of sliding, unless you get a Tom Brady $350 million broadcaster contract and then you’ll be up in the upper stratosphere again. But I would say that her assets were the ones that need more protecting than Mr. Kelce’s.
Pat Milan
Mark, you’re not going to go after Scott to get him to try and pay for some child care.
Scott Benson
We’ll have to see if they have children.
Pat Milan
Really playing this out down the road here. I was thinking about this before we got together and I was thinking if I was structuring Taylor’s prenup, which would be perfect, right? The non-lawyer structuring the prenup. There’s the streaming of her songs. There’s the royalties from broadcast use of her songs, on radio and TV. This is stuff you were talking about Mark, sales of digital albums, CDs, LPs. How about this one guys? She’s actually getting money from sales of cassettes, who is listening to music on cassette tapes? Then there’s the tour revenue.
Mark Briol
One’s that don’t have a 33 and a third album.
Strategic Considerations for Taylor Swift’s Prenup
Pat Milan
I guess, or a 78. That tour revenue altogether, it’s likely going to be that this is the biggest revenue year of her career. She grossed 1.8 billion this year, all of it wrapped up across 10 different businesses she owns. Listen here, Scott, as you think about this, those businesses are being run by family members, her family members. So Mark, and Scott, how much of the business should Taylor be willing to share with Travis if this relationship goes south? And when I say south, I don’t mean Nashville.
Mark Briol
Well, again, I would say that you start off with, he can pay for his own way. And each of them should come into the marriage with what they have and leave with what they earned and have. And that would be fair. He’s on the downside of his career, she’s just on the upside of her career right now.
Pat Milan
Oh, come on. Mark. He has exposed her to a whole new world on the most popular television broadcast, the NFL. Scott, he has definitely increased her value.
Scott Benson
Exactly right. I think Mr. Kelce should be given at least half of all her assets in the prenup and Mr. Kelce actually should make sure they have a prenup that gives him half of the assets because should there be no prenup and they get divorced after a very short marriage. I’m not saying that’s going to happen, but should they get married and the marriage not last very long, that will be a factor if there is no prenup in what he’s entitled to. And so arguing that he ought to have at least half of her assets because he has, even prior to the marriage, helped her generate that income and will continue to help her generate that income. And as Mark pointed out, at the same time, she’s likely to continue having that level of income for years and years and years to come. Whereas Mr. Kelce’s days are limited on the football field. And I think it’s unlikely he’s going to be able to continue to generate this income. So he needs to live at the same level that he’s gotten used to during the marriage that he’s having with Miss Swift.
Pat Milan
The level of means that he is about to become accustomed to right.
Mark Briol
We were talking about that before we got on about his lifestyle is going to become different than it was before. And at some point in time, he may claim that he’s entitled to that lifestyle.
Pat Milan
Yeah, I mean, think about it. Right now, when he travels on an airplane he has to travel with like 35 to 50 more people.
Mark Briol
All guys, by the way.
Evaluating Travis Kelce’s Needs and Assets
Pat Milan
So here’s Travis’s question. So I thought about that, he’s 34. There’s 11 NFL seasons, he’s already way past the typical life of a player. He’s grossed $47 million. We got to get the other stats into 907 receptions, 11,000 yards, 74 touchdowns, and he’s got a pretty impressive roster of corporate sponsors: Nike, Bud Light, StateFarm, Pfizer, DirecTV, Experian. The weight of carrying all this money around must be tough. He says he plans to play another year. But everybody’s already asking if his career is close to its end. What do you want from Taylor’s nest to protect Travis, Scott? This poor guy’s only got 34-35 million to get by for the rest of his life.
Scott Benson
Well, and who knows what kinds of injuries are going to show up as he goes and continues on in life that require medical care. You know, I don’t know how many concussions he suffered in the course of his career. He may have some serious medical issues to contend with, where he certainly needs the assets that Miss Swift could provide to him to be able to continue. In fact, you know, when you’re looking at the requirements to determine whether or not the prenup was fair, you look both at the time that the prenup was entered into and at the time you’re enforcing it, to see whether or not it’s unconscionable. And I would argue on behalf of Mr. Kelce, it’s unconscionable not to take into account his future needs and that Miss Swift’s assets should be available to him to pay for those.
Pat Milan
Any thoughts on that one, Mark?
Mark Briol
Well, first of all, I did say I was a Taylor Swift fan. I am also a Travis Kelce fan. And a Jason Kelce fan, too.
Pat Milan
There you go.
Mark Briol
But no, my only comment on that is, you know, we could agree that we would pay for his medical expenses going forward. We would get a nice medical insurance policy and fund that on an annual basis. And I think we could afford that.
Protecting Reputation and Assets: The X Factor with Taylor Swift
Pat Milan
So let me bring up what I think is called The X Factor with Taylor. Taylor Swift has made millions of dollars from writing more than 10 songs about 7 ex-boyfriends. Scott, don’t you think Travis should protect himself if they break up and she writes a hot hit ballad that embarrasses him publicly? I mean, what do you do to protect yourself from what your ex might say about you in the future, particularly if your ex is a famous songwriter?
Scott Benson
I have never seen a non disparagement clause in a premarital agreement. But I’d certainly ask for onne in this case, given the history. That there ought to be a non disparagement clause but on the other hand, you know if there isn’t and maybe you can include a clause that if she writes any song that in any way seems to indicate that it’s based on the circumstances of their affair, love affair, or marriage, that he makes all the proceeds off of that song. So that’s what I would argue for as part of the drafting. The other thing by the way, that is important in both enforcing or going after the premarital agreement, is that you have to have disclosure of all the assets. So if she’s planning on writing a song, I would argue she needs to disclose that now as part of the full and complete disclosure that one has to make in order to enforce a premarital agreement.
Pat Milan
Mark if you are on the other side, would you go after this as well?
Mark Briol
If I was on Miss Swift’s side or Travis’s?
Pat Milan
Whatever you can, you know what, you can be on any side you want.
Mark Briol
If I was on Miss Swift’s side, I would say, hey, you know, what I write my songs about and the words I use, if I don’t use his name, he can say it’s about him, but you know. I won’t say anything that is disparaging in a defamatory way. But to the extent my feelings have been bled dry. I have an opportunity to voice that to the public, as I have in the past.
Pat Milan
The first time we talked about this subject and doing this and you guys were laughing, one of the first things both of you said was prenups that are done right are hard to break.
Scott Benson
Yep, that’s true. That’s true. I mean, you want to make sure you follow all the – anything we would look at to break, you’d want to make sure you follow through. You want to make sure both sides have attorneys, they both have adequate time to look through the agreement, you don’t spring it on them 15 minutes before you have thousands of people showing up for a destination wedding with no time to review it. So, each of the things we would look at if we’re looking at either enforcing it or breaking it, you want to make sure that you’ve taken that into account in the drafting of the agreement.
Addressing Glaring Errors in Prenup Drafting
Pat Milan
Mark, what’s one of the, or Scott, if you have it, when you take a look at prenups that actually have been broken or that were wrong, what are kind of the glaring errors? You mentioned a couple of them, like the last minute surprise, but what about when it’s not been a last minute surprise, and someone’s put together? Where have people been successful in breaking them?
Scott Benson
Well, sometimes people break them for other than where we’ve talked about already, because of there’s some sort of duress involved. And let me tell you, duress is hard to prove. But the surest sign of duress is they held a gun to your head and told you you had to sign it or they were going to pull the trigger. That’s = the surest form of duress out there. And as we talked about, if it’s just plainly unconscionable, it’s so unfair that it’s unconscionable, that’s another one that would show that the prenup should not be enforced. And again, if there’s no representation, and you can’t have the same attorney representing both people, they both ought to be represented by different counsel, in order to make sure that it’s fair and that it’s enforceable in the end.
Super Bowl Predictions and Conclusion
Pat Milan
I’m just curious, who do you guys think is gonna win the Super Bowl, the 49ers, the Chiefs, or Taylor Swift?
Mark Briol
Taylor Swift, followed by the 49ers, followed by the Chiefs.
Pat Milan Well, hey, thanks for playing along. This is fun to just kind of have this conversation and still do it in the realm of what it takes to do it right. You guys are among the best in helping people navigate high net worth divorces. You help your clients really take care and ensure their rights and their property are protected in those situations. And, you know, we want to make sure that people know, go to briollaw.com. If you have questions about your family business, or other complex cases, or they can send them to you by emailing podcast@briollaw.com. To subscribe to the podcast, you can find us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Mark and Scott, thanks for your time today and remember, we are never ever getting back together – until the next podcast
Conclusion
Pat Milan
Yeah, and hopefully your fight’s not as ugly as the Kardashians fight, which by the way, we have the link to it if anybody wants to see it. I think our viewers can tell you guys are really good at helping minority shareholders get a family business on track, and performing in the best interest of all the shareholders. Whether it is a minority shareholder rights, securities fraud, patent litigation, or a high asset divorce, Briol & Benson are prepared to answer your questions and help you figure out if you have a case, and how to get control of your rights. For more information, go to Briollaw.com and if you have questions about your family business, or any other complex commercial cases, you can send them to us by email: podcast@briollaw.com. And to subscribe to the podcast, you can find us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Mark, Scott, thanks for your time today and we’ll see you guys on our next podcast.
Scott Benson
Thank you.